The Right Honorable Charles Clarke: You put your finger on it. The process has to be owned by the people themselves. If they're being told what to do, they may agree, but they may reject it also.
What you need is for the people to understand, be brought into the tent, to think about what the change process will mean for the organization, for themselves personally, and then be able to contribute to the outcome. That's a very difficult thing to do because change is very frightening.
You worry about losing a job, having to move the place that you work, losing money on some process, having a different boss, whatever it is, you don't know what change is going to mean. The best way you can address that problem, as a leader, is to try, and enable everybody in the organization to understand what process is happening, to own the solution, and be part of the solution.
Now, that went in to make all your attention, there's always going to be problems, there's always going to be conflict of various kinds, but it will get you to a better place in terms of thinking through how I as a person can deal with that situation and that's some real leadership talent.
How do political leaders engage citizens and motivate them to take an active interest?
The Right Honorable Charles Clarke: Some politicians are brilliant at this. The politician I work with who I thought was really outstanding, this was Tony Blair. He had a wonderful capacity to do that. I think Obama had that capacity. I think Ronald Reagan had that capacity.
"It's not about your political orientation, it's about your personality."
So what is it about the personality? It's the personality, which says, "I'm trusting you, you should trust me” and carry it through. Other politicians are not successful doing that. I think that's an issue at all levels of leadership.
Now, if you look at an issue like going into a war, for example, the most terrible of decisions that political leaders have to take, the question whether you can convey to people what's going on and enable them to feel part of that process, to own that decision, is absolutely central, and some people can and some people can't.
To what extent you can train leaders to engage a citizenry? It's a very interesting question, which I don't fully know the answer to the question. There's something instinctive with some people who achieve da brilliant level.